On another thread you asked where the clear and present danger from Iraqi was.
So now I am going to ask you a two-part question.
1. Sherman and his march to the sea.
After Grant took Vicksburg, the Union had split the Confederacy and had complete control of the Mississippi. The Confederate?s southern army was shot up, had almost no supplies and no decent transportation. So why did Grant send Sherman and his 60,000 + men on a campaign across the south, burning Atlanta and almost everything else that got in his way as he marched to Savannah?
While Sherman was burning, destroying and mostly shooting up under manned and under supplied rear guard, Grant was fighting a nasty trench war against Bobby Lee as he tried to take Richmond. Would not have Sherman been more effective by going east directly to Richmond and placing himself in a position to cut off Lee?s retreat out of Richmond?
2. The bombing of Romanian during WWII
Why did the US Army Air Core in one raid send 177 planes and 1,726 men of which, 54 planes and 532 men failed to return to bomb a place in Romania?
I both cases, where was the clear and present danger?
1. Do you know that much 'bout history or are those questions cut 'n pasted from FReeperland?
2. Not all wars are fought over a clear and present danger. Iraq, however, was sold on that basis. Saddam was a "threat of unique urgency" according to our President.
Sounds like Jumper's question remains unanswered.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1) Yes he does know that much about history. I have had the pleasure of discussing with him his views on the Civil War. Or as Trav put it 'The War of Northern Aggression'.Originally posted by LanDroid:
1. Do you know that much 'bout history or are those questions cut 'n pasted from FReeperland?
2. Not all wars are fought over a clear and present danger. Iraq, however, was sold on that basis. Saddam was a "threat of unique urgency" according to our President.
Sounds like Jumper's question remains unanswered.
2) Please name me a war fought where there was not at the very minimum a 'perceived' clear and present danger. I'll save you the trouble. You can't. All wars are started over what one country sees. The danger will always be there.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There you go again making the liberal mistake of thinking that because I think different then you I must be stupid.Originally posted by LanDroid:
1. Do you know that much 'bout history or are those questions cut 'n pasted from FReeperland?
2. Not all wars are fought over a clear and present danger. Iraq, however, was sold on that basis. Saddam was a "threat of unique urgency" according to our President.
Sounds like Jumper's question remains unanswered.
Speaking of stupid, please tell me what war was fought without a clear and present danger for someone.
Maybe the 100 years war or the war of the roses, you know how those Frence are.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1) Yes he does know that much about history. I have had the pleasure of discussing with him his views on the Civil War. Or as Trav put it 'The War of Northern Aggression'.Originally posted by Gunslinger:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by LanDroid:
1. Do you know that much 'bout history or are those questions cut 'n pasted from FReeperland?
2. Not all wars are fought over a clear and present danger. Iraq, however, was sold on that basis. Saddam was a "threat of unique urgency" according to our President.
Sounds like Jumper's question remains unanswered.
2) Please name me a war fought where there was not at the very minimum a 'perceived' clear and present danger. I'll save you the trouble. You can't. All wars are started over what one country sees. The danger will always be there.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks.
Trick questions Trav.
I could argue that there are "levels" of danger and the two examples you cited were a damn site more elevated than our current adventure.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think their trick questions and both of them apply to our current situation. There are always levels of danger, but quantifying them is difficult.Originally posted by Jumper69:
Trick questions Trav.
I could argue that there are "levels" of danger and the two examples you cited were a damn site more elevated than our current adventure.
Can you actually tell me with a straight face that if we didn't invade Iraqi there would have been no more attacks on US soil after 9/11?
No I can't tell you that. I also can't predict the future. Will there be more attacks on our soil. Probably. Likely even.
So how do you tell if your policy is the right one? Nothing happens.
You can't prove a negative.
True you can't prove a negative.
But you can learn from history, which by the way most people don't. Of all the wars and conflicts the US has fought (see list below) where do you see the current war in Iraqi rank when using your definition of a clear and present danger? How about the Moro or Banana wars were they more or less of a danger then Sadam was?
The American Revolution
1775-1783
Inter-State and Colonial War Great Britain
The Indian Wars
1775-1890
Wars of Imperialism
Native (Indian) Tribes and Nations of North America
Shay's Rebellion
1786-1787
Rebellion
Anti-(state)Government Rebels vs. Massachusetts
The Whiskey Rebellion
1794
Rebellion
Anti-Tax Rebels in Western Pennsylvania
Quasi-War With France
1798-1800
Inter-State (Naval) War
France
Fries's Rebellion "The Hot Water War"
1799
Rebellion
Anti-Tax Rebels in Pennsylvania
The Barbary Wars
1800-1815
Inter-State War
The Barbary States (Tripoli, Algiers & Morocco)
The War of 1812
1812-1815
Inter-State War
Great Britain
Mexican-American War
1846-1848
Inter-State War
Mexico
U.S. Slave Rebellions
1800-1865
Slave Rebellions
Various Slave groups
"Bleeding Kansas"
1855-1860
Civil War (state of Kansas)
Pro-Slavery vs. Anti-Slavery Kansans
Brown's Raid on Harper's Ferry
1859
Rebellion
Anti-Slavery Rebels (Led by John Brown)
United States Civil War
1861-1865
Civil War
United States (The North) vs.
The Confederate States (The South)
U.S. Intervention in Hawaiian Revolution
1893
Internal Rebellion & Foreign Intervention
Hawaiian Government
The Spanish-American War
1898
Inter-State War
Spain
U.S. Intervention in Samoan Civil War
1898-1899
Civil War & Foreign Intervention
Samoan Faction
U.S.-Philippine War
1899-1902
Colonial War, War of Imperialism
The Philippines
Boxer Rebellion
1900
Internal Rebellion & Foreign Intervention
Chinese Government & "Boxer" Rebels
The Moro Wars
1901-1913
Colonial Wars
Philippine Muslim Rebels
U.S. Intervention in Panamanian Revolution
1903
Secessionist Revolution & Foreign Intervention
Colombia
The Banana Wars
1909-1933
Civil Wars & Foreign Intervention
Various Rebel Groups In Central America
U.S. Occupation of Vera Cruz
1914
Inter-State War
Mexico
Pershing's Raid Into Mexico
1916-1917
Inter-State, Border War
Mexican Government & Mexican Rebels ("Bandits")
World War I
1917-1918 (American involvement only)
Inter-State War
Germany
Allied Intervention in Russian Civil War
1919-1921
Civil War & Foreign Intervention
Russian Bolshevik (Soviet) Government
World War II
1941-1945 (American involvement only)
Inter-State War
Germany, Japan & Italy
The Cold War
1945-1991
Global Inter-State Cold War
The Soviet Union & Communist China
The Korean War
1950-1953
Inter-State War
North Korea & China
The Second Indochina War "Vietnam War"
1956-1975
Civil War, Inter-State War
North Vietnam & South Vietnamese "Viet Cong" Rebels
U.S. Intervention in Lebanon
1958
Civil War & Foreign Intervention
No real foe for U.S. Troops landed to support Lebanon Gov.
Dominican Intervention
1965
Civil War & Foreign Intervention
Rebels in the Dominican Republic
The Mayaguez Rescue Operation
News Story 1975 (May 15)
Hostage Rescue & Inter-State Conflict
Khmer Rouge Guerrillas (the new government of Cambodia)
Iranian Hostage Rescue "Desert One" or "Operation Eagle Claw"
1980 (April 25)
Hostage Rescue & Inter-State Conflict
Iran
U.S. Libya Conflict
1981, 1986
Inter-State War
Libya
U.S. Intervention in Lebanon
1982-1984
Civil War,Foreign Intervention & Inter-State War
Syria & Various Muslim and Leftist Lebanese Militias
U.S. Invasion of Grenada
1983
Inter-State War
Marxist Grenadian Faction & Cuba
The Tanker War
"Operation Earnest Will"
1987-1988
Inter-State War
Iran
U.S. Invasion of Panama
1989
Inter-State War
Panama
Second Persian Gulf War "Operation Desert Storm"
1991
Inter-State War
Iraq
"No-Fly Zone" War
1991-2003
Inter-State War
Iraq
U.S. Intervention in Somalia
1992-1994
Civil War & Foreign Intervention
Various Somali Militias
NATO Intervention in Bosnia (Operation Deliberate Force) Summary
1994-1995
Civil War,Foreign Intervention & Inter-State War
Bosnian Serb Rebels
U.S. Occupation of Haiti
1994
Foreign Intervention
Haitian Government
U.S. Embassy bombings and strikes on Afghanistan and Sudan (The bin Laden War)
August, 1998
Terrorist Conflict
The embassy bombings in August, 1998 by Osama bin Laden caused hundreds of deaths in Kenya and Tanzania. The U.S. retaliated by launching Tomahawk Cruise Missiles at suspected terrorist targets in Afghanistan and Sudan.
"Desert Fox" Campaign (part of U.S./Iraq Conflict)
December, 1998
Inter-State War
Iraq
Kosovo War
1999
Civil War, Foreign Intervention & Inter-State War
Yugoslavia/Serbia
Afghanistan War (Operation Enduring Freedom)
October 7, 2001-Present
War against Terrorism
Third Persian Gulf War "Operation Iraqi Freedom"
March 19, 2003-Present
Inter-State War
Iraq
Intervention in Haiti
March, 2004
Foreign Intervention in a civil conflict
Haiti
<font color="#000002" size="1">[ October 15, 2004 12:04 PM: Message edited by: travelinman ]</font>
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